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User talk:Cambonious
Welcome Welcome to the Malazan Wiki, and thank you for your edit to the Thread:13129|Captain Lull Iron Wickan Cattle dog Sigil page. There is a lot to do around here, so we hope that you will stay with us and get around to adding more amazing Malazan facts. *'Need help?' The is a useful page, here you can read about how to successfully perform the most common tasks on the wiki. *'Questions?' Feel free to post a message on my talk page or that of one of the other contributors if you need any help. If you have a query or comment regarding specific content, it is best posted on the talk/discussion page attached to the article in question. *'Want to talk Malazan stuff?' We try to keep the discussions here related to the task at hand: building a great wiki. There are already great Malazan discussion communities such as the Malazan Empire forums, the Malazan subreddit or the Malazan Art Guild and we would recommend that you join one of these - most of us are already there too. We are happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you! :ArchieVist (talk) 06:09, December 17, 2018 (UTC) Welcome Welcome to the Malazan Wiki, and thank you for your edit to the File:WickanDog Patch.jpg page. There is a lot to do around here, so we hope that you will stay with us and get around to adding more amazing Malazan facts. *'Need help?' The is a useful page, here you can read about how to successfully perform the most common tasks on the wiki. *'Questions?' Feel free to post a message on my talk page or that of one of the other contributors if you need any help. If you have a query or comment regarding specific content, it is best posted on the talk/discussion page attached to the article in question. *'Want to talk Malazan stuff?' We try to keep the discussions here related to the task at hand: building a great wiki. There are already great Malazan discussion communities such as the Malazan Empire forums, the Malazan subreddit or the Malazan Art Guild and we would recommend that you join one of these - most of us are already there too. We are happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you! :ArchieVist (talk) 22:38, January 14, 2019 (UTC) App idea Hi Cambonious, I'm Coltaine, basically the art guy of the wiki. I have heard of the Game of Thrones App before and it really sounds like an awesome idea for the Malazan world. Let me know if I can help somehow :) There is no official map of the whole world until now, aside from a sketch from Steven Erikson, but there is a fan-made map that is actually very accurate according to the authors: https://malazan.fandom.com/wiki/File:Malazan_World_Map_by_D%27rek.jpg cheers, Coltaine (talk) 23:44, January 25, 2019 (UTC) : Hi Cam, : Yes, don't worry, you wrote posted in the right area ;). We are always happy about more contributers here. If you have any questions about how the wiki works just ask me or Pcwrcw. Always glad to help. Do you know the Malazan Empire Forum? https://forum.malazanempire.com/ . We also have a group chat there, which is the best way to get into contact with everyone of the staff at once :) : Sounds already like a good start. I'm already curious for the draft ^^ : Coltaine (talk) 22:20, January 31, 2019 (UTC) ::This sounds like an amazing idea. Do you have a link for your draft? ::Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 11:46, February 8, 2019 (UTC) App idea - Pcwrcw's "two cents" worth Hi Cambonious: Great...Coltaine has made contact with you! I was going to recommend to you that you get in touch with him because he's not only one of the wiki's best image/art/map experts, but because he's also one of the wiki's administrators. I recommend that you take him up on his offer of help/advice because he really knows what he's doing image-wise and he understands the 'mechanics' of the wiki. : ) Pcwrcw (talk) 05:23, January 28, 2019 (UTC) re: MT Chapter 21 Summary I Hi Cambonious: I see that you're trying your hand at doing Chapter Summaries - an area of the wiki which definitely needs as much attention as possible : ) I assume that you've read the entirety of the "Malazan Wiki:Adopt a chapter" page as you've made a very good start. I have to confess that I'm not, myself, experienced with writing them - just with reading them - but I'll try to help as much as possible. I noticed that you had trouble with the "assignment" section of "Adopt a chapter", so I signed in for you. Sort of... As far as your start to the Summary of Chapter 21, you clearly have the right idea. One thing that was definitly needed were the article links: that is, for example Seren Pedac instead of just plain 'Seren Pedac', and so on. You need to link any given name only the first time it appears in that particular Chapter Summary - it can appear un-linked thereafter until you move on to another chapter. As to which names can be linked (i.e., there exists an article written about it) can be most easily determined by keying in a name with the double square brackets and checking "Preview" to see if the name changes color. If it turns out to be red, that means that an article for that name does not exist (yet, if ever) and the name should just be written 'plain' without the linking double square brackets. There is a quick way to check by looking at the "A - Z" Dramatis Personae for the book you are working with. However, there is the danger of spoilers if you haven't completely read that book yet - so that's a factor to keep in mind. With that in mind, just where are you in your reading of the Malazan books? Is this your first reading of MT, for example, or is this a reread? Let me know. Looking forward to your next installment, Pcwrcw (talk) 07:15, February 5, 2019 (UTC) re: MT Chapter 21 Summary II Hey Pcwrcw, Apologies for all the those errors. I was acting on the belief that it was "a work in progress". I guess I wasn't aware that when I saved something EVERYONE would be able to see it, so I apologize. Do you think, perhaps, writing them in a word document first would be the best way to do something like this? Then just copy and paste and add links? That way there isn't a large portion of it incomplete? And no, I haven't finished the entire series. I just finished Midnight Tides last night. Therefore, all of my summaries won't have anything to do with spoilers because there's nothing yet to spoil! haha. Again, apologies for the errors, Cambonious (talk) 15:41, February 5, 2019 (UTC) re: MT Chapter 21 Summary III :Hi Cambonious: sorry to have trod unnecessarily on your rough draft - the apologies are all mine. You, too, can see what people are publishing, if you click on "Recent changes" on the wiki "Homepage". To indicate that something is a work in progress, just add something like WORK IN PROGRESS at the top of whatever you are working on and/or put "To be Continued" or "Part 1/Part 2..." - or whatever - in the "Edit summary" box. Just be sure to remove any such flags when you are completely finished and are ready for prime time : ) :You can do an initial draft in Word, but be aware that Word's apostrophes are not the same symbol as the ( ' ) which is the symbol to always be used when coding in "Edit/Source" for this wiki - or, for example, in proper names like K'rul, or in the SE title Reaper's Gale. The ( ' ) form is the form of the symbol which is produced by modern keyboards. There is something available on the wiki called a "Sandbox" which can be used for temporary material, but I have never used one, myself, and know nothing more about it than that there is a Template for it. No need to be sensitive about your rough work, we are all well aware of the versions that compositions can go through before they are "ready" - and, if alerted, we leave works in progress alone. :The reason I asked if you had ever finished MT, was because any advice I or anyone else might give you needs to keep the possibility of spoiling you in mind. However, your point about not having to worry about spoiling other people with your summaries because you haven't read beyond MT is quite valid - clever of you to have thought about it like that. Do let me know if you'd like/need some help or advice, Pcwrcw (talk) 03:12, February 6, 2019 (UTC) Belated welcome Hi Cambonious, welcome to the Wiki from me as well. Looks like you have made a pretty amazing start here. Just read one of your summaries - excellent work there ***"thumbs up"***! I am one of the admins here but due to real life interference mostly absent at the moment. Still, if you have any questions, feel free to send me a message. Otherwise, you are in good hands with the amazing regulars here who keep the boat afloat - ArchieVist, Coltaine and Pcwrcw. Really fantastic that you are doing the summaries as you go along. If you come to some that are already written, it would be amazing if you checked them over for spoilers. Most were put up by people who had already read all of the books and it is sometimes difficult to assess what a first time reader might already know at that point. Don't be alarmed if someone makes changes to something you wrote and equally, feel free to edit stuff others wrote if you think that it does not quite convey the info from the book. We all try and look out for each other because one thing editing the Wiki will teach you is just how ambiguous so much of the writing is and how easy it is to miss small but important details. Editing will give you a whole new, enhanced appreciation of the Malazan books. With regards to linking names, places etc. on the Wiki, I'll put up a topic on the forum about this as I have been meaning to get a common policy written up about it for some time. Add your thoughts to the discussion. Enjoy the Malazan read - sooooo much more great stuff still to come :) See you around :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 11:47, February 8, 2019 (UTC) Edit: goes to show how rusty I am - forgot to sign :You dropped out just when it got interesting?!? Ok, I know a lot of people faltered over book ten, but I enjoyed it. I don't get hung up about reading every single word if there is a part I absolutely don't like. So I probably skimmed some of the Perrin sections on the first read. They were more interesting second time through. Some of my favourite bits are in the later books. Maybe you ought to revisit one day ;) :Your best friend here on the Wiki is the 'Recent Changes' page - quick way to get to it is the link on the homepage under main title - woth bookmarking. You'll find everyone here keeps an eye on talk page edits as that is a good way of keeping up with changes and developments. So yes, I saw your exchange about the App - sounds like a great idea. Might be worth getting in touch with Werthead and D'rek via the Malazan Empire Forums as they have both done extensive mapping of the Malazan world. I think that Werthead is working on a kind of Atlas of the Malazan World but have not followed it so don't know if that is still the case. :It is always great to hear that the Wiki contributed to someone's enjoyment of the Malazan books :) :Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 14:31, February 9, 2019 (UTC) re: MT Chapter 21 Summary IV Hi Cambonious: Great job on finishing the MT Chapter 21 Summary! I did some relatively minor editing - mainly the removal of 'duplicate' links. Remember that only the first occurrence within a given Chapter Summary needs to be linked. Subsequent occurrences, by this wiki's usage, are left un-linked. When you move on to a different Chapter Summary, you again link the first occurrences but not subsequent ones in that particular Chapter Summary...and so on. "Feather Witch", "Mayen" and the "Nascent" on the other hand, needed links. There were a couple of typos which I corrected. The sentence about Feather Witch seemed to be unfinished - if you would prefer to edit that sentence differently than I did, do not hesitate to do so. Don't be discouraged by these changes - they are actually quite minor. You have done an exceptional job for your first major editing task : ) I've rarely seen someone new to editing do as well as you did on this Chapter Summary. Chapter Summaries are more difficult than they look. But now that you've done one, the next ones will get significantly easier and easier. Repeated experiences are the only way to improve - the more done, the faster the improvement happens. Looking forward to your next MT Chapter Summary (or whatever), Pcwrcw (talk) 05:01, February 11, 2019 (UTC) :PS: if you look at the "Adopt a chapter" article - at https://malazan.fandom.com/wiki/Malazan_Wiki:Adopt_a_chapter - you'll find that the once white "MT/21" square has been changed to green...indicating that it has been completed...a marker of your progress!! Midnight Tides Chapter 21 Hi, Cambonious. I'm ArchieVist, another admin here on the wiki. Thank you for your recent contributions. However, I was looking at your recent summary of MT/21 and there are entire sentences either copied and pasted or slightly reworded from the summary on Tor.com's Midnight Tides Reread. Example: Tor.com: Rhulad has returned from drowning a world (the Nascent) and is troubled by it. To distract him, Udinaas asks about the champions the Edur will seek so Rhulad can be killed for his power to grow stronger. They discuss how that should be done. Udinaas later tells him the tale of the eels and the lake. Wiki: Rhulad returns from a drowning world (the Nascent) and is troubled by it. So troubled in fact, that Rhulad seeks a distraction in the form of conversation from Udinaas. Udinaas asks about the champions the Edur will seek so Rhulad can be killed for his power to grow stronger and the two discuss how this should be done. Udinaas then tell him the tale of the eels and the lake that he remembers from when he lived among his fellow Letherii. These sections should be written entirely in your own words, and preferably based on your own recent reading of the chapter. Looking at the Tor site for clarification is fine if there is something in the text that is unclear to you, but it shouldn't be slavishly followed as the basis for your own interpretation. We're not affiliated with them in any way and reusing their material would be violation of copyright. I'll leave this chapter summary up temporarily so you can continue working on it, but if left as is, much will have to be removed.--ArchieVist (talk) 17:21, February 11, 2019 (UTC) :Yeah, the chapter summaries are a lot harder to do than most people realize. When I write them, I specifically avoid looking at the Tor site to avoid being influenced.--ArchieVist (talk) 17:45, February 11, 2019 (UTC) No worries. Any time a new editor starts making significant contributions there are some growing pains as they get used to this wiki's standards. I'm glad to see someone tackling chapter summaries as there are so many missing.--ArchieVist (talk) 19:37, February 11, 2019 (UTC) ::I never use the Tor re-read so did not notice this. Good thing AV did, early enough for there not to be too much to re-work! Copyright concerns apart, another reason to avoid pasting from other sources is that they may not be correct. We initially thought we could transfer some stuff from the old Malazan Empire Forum Wiki but soon found that it was strewn with mistakes - some of them real clangers. Hence we keep pushing for refs and ask people that they edit from book to Wiki not from memory. Same thing applies to the books by the way, i.e. re-phrase and use your own words. Quoting verbatim should be kept to an absolute minimum. Don't worry, it takes time to get into the rhythm of Wiki editing but it soon gets easier :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 12:20, February 12, 2019 (UTC) Hi, Cambonious. I removed the text from Chapter 21. Your work isn't lost though. You can still select the history option from the Edit dropdown menu to see a snapshot of the page as it was. I hope you'll have the opportunity to take another crack at it. Best regards.--ArchieVist (talk) 23:54, February 23, 2019 (UTC) Bonehunters Just read your note to Pcwrcw (no mail is private on the Wiki, lol!) totally get where you are coming from - not wanting to put down the book to do any editing! It is one of my top three if not the top favourite of the series :) Mind you, I really liked Reaper's Gale, too - so not sure editing is going to get easier! Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 18:49, March 6, 2019 (UTC) Hi from Pcwrcw... Hi Cambonious: Good to see you back again - I really like your use of the badge for your avatar! As for the best way to tackle a chapter summary, I expect different editors probably approach the job in different ways. As you may remember, I myself, have never actually written chapter summaries, but I do have some ideas on how they might be approached. If it were me, I would read the whole chapter through first just taking the story in and enjoying SE's writing. Then, I would go back and read the same chapter again, this time slowly and carefully, paying attention to the details and subtleties - perhaps even taking brief notes. The first thing would be to decide what location sub-titles will be needed. Then write (however it first comes to you) sub-section by sub-section. Don't try to get it in "final form" right off the bat - that, after all, is the beauty of using a word processor! Then go back and correct/reword/polish until you're reasonably satisfied with what you've written. Remember to write in the present tense and to add links - i.e., whatever - but only the first time they appear in that particular chapter summary. You, of course, may have a completely different approach. The important thing is to get it written in a way that seems most natural to you. I expect the first couple of times, the process will go slowly, but with experience the process will get quicker. An Admin (ArchieVist/Coltaine/Egwene) will check what you've written and give you a heads-up if/when needed. If you want to complete and publish each sub-section one by one, (or you're interrupted midstream) just write Be Continued, Draft, or whatever applies. Good writing! Pcwrcw (talk) 05:49, March 7, 2019 (UTC) Chapter summaries Further to Pcwrcw's comments a few pointers. We are working on a more uniform structure of the summaries so if you could follow some basic rules, that would be great. Write with the books at hand to ensure accuracy and use your own words. Summaries on the main book page should be done by 'books within the books' rather than chapters and should be much shorter than the individual chapter page summaries -more of an overview. See Gardens of the Moon which is kind of a template for how all the book pages should be structured. Individual chapter summaries should adhere to the timeline and be concise whilst containing everything that the reader needs to be able to follow the story. Obviously, there may be bits which you don't recognise as being important (disadvantage of being a new reader) but hopefully, we'll pick up on those as we do the spoiler proofing for all summaries. Whatever you write, should accurately reflect SE's writing. No spoilers - here you have the advantage that you have not yet read the next chapters/books. You just need to watch out that you don't add your own ideas of what might happen next into the equation. Hope this helps :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 11:15, March 7, 2019 (UTC) Reaper's Gale Chapter Summaries Hey, Cambonious. For now, save your efforts and avoid any more work on the first three chapters of Reaper's Gale. These summaries were actually just added a few days ago, and you might want to sit down for this part, were basically copied over from the Tor Re-read. We're currently trying to get hold of the writer to see if they want to redo them.--ArchieVist (talk) 18:21, March 8, 2019 (UTC) :You've got to be kidding me haha. I think some god (perhaps Shadowthrone) is aligning things in a way that prevents me from writing summaries hah. Ok, I'll just read up to chapter 4 and begin that summary when I get there. Thanks for letting me know. Cambonious (talk) 19:05, March 8, 2019 (UTC) Various comments from Pcwrcw Hi Cambonious: Well, you got the bad news from ArchieVist above, but the good news it that what editing you had already done on the first RG Chapter Summary looked like you had the correct general idea. For example, identifying and posting the location subsections was an appropriate thing to do. Don't get discouraged...we all have stories of tribulations encountered when we were first getting started on the wiki - I know I certainly have : ) Pcwrcw (talk) 03:56, March 9, 2019 (UTC) I looked at the change that you made in the Brohl Handar page - i.e., inserting (governor) after Overseer - which I think was a helpful addition and justified by the text. However, because of the multitude of different paperback and hardcover editions of the Malazan books, it is always best to give the chapter as reference as a minimum. The page number is only useful information if one knows which particular edition is being used. At your stage, I think giving some notation such as 1 would be best. I also did some other tinkering, but that sort of editing would not be expected from you at this stage. For your information, though, the whole article actually needs to be rephrased at some point. It's almost word for word from the text of the book - which I didn't get into. At some point, some wiki editor will probably tackle it - being that close to the SE and ICE books is certainly not ideal - nor advisable - but it isn't a crisis, either. Cheers, Pcwrcw (talk) 07:22, March 9, 2019 (UTC) : Apologies for making that addition. That's definitely not my lane and I'll leave those edits to admins. Cambonious (talk) 22:34, March 9, 2019 (UTC) Hi Cambonious: There is absolutely no reason to apologize! I'm very sorry if I gave you the impression that your addition to the Brohl Handar page was out of line - quite the contrary! As I said, I thought that it was helpful and justified. All the rest of my comments were meant to be informative, not criticism in any way, shape or form. You are precisely the type of editor that is encouraged to make that sort of edit - the Admins of the wiki depend on everyone helping out where and when they see an opportunity. I should, perhaps, make it clear that I'm not an Admin. My 'title' (if it can be called that) is "Patroller". As the name sounds like, one of the things that I do is look at new posts in "Recent Changes" (i.e., "patrol") to see if the editor requires any correction/direction/feedback, etc. As I've done with you. The wiki is quite serious about its statement that anyone can edit. With newcomers, we tend to add educational information as well. Also, editing being in our blood - so to speak - we usually do some additional editing while we're about it. The main thing to take away from my earlier comments of March 9th is that it's important to identify the chapter (and the book, if it's not obvious) when referencing an edit. As for your RG Chapter Summaries, those I leave, at this point, to the Admins. What I saw of your Chapter Four Summary when I glanced at it, looked good, but you'll be officially hearing about it from one of the Admins presently. Good to see you progressing, Pcwrcw (talk) 03:20, March 10, 2019 (UTC) : Hey Pcwrcw, oh ok thank you for sharing. I didn't take your comments as criticism at all haha. I just thought you meant that "newer" people like me weren't supposed to edit those kinds of pages. No problem! This morning I'm going to check the spelling and links of everything and wait for the admins to check it out. Thanks for clarifying your role though. It's so cool that you and the admins are part of such a cool organization (for lack of a better term) in this wiki. I've never known something like this existed so it's cool to add to it any way I can! : Thanks again for the kind words! Cambonious (talk) 15:48, March 10, 2019 (UTC) ::Like your description of a 'cool organisation'! Well, you are part of it now. :) ::Just to reiterate - you are welcome to edit any page if you see something that needs correcting or improving. It is that non-territorial team effort that makes the Wiki what it is. What one person might have missed another editor hopefully picks up on. A couple of pages are admin only though you are welcome to make suggestions for improvements there (homepage for example). Also, if anyone thinks their page edit is going to take them a few days, they may put a note on the page to ask others to hold off until they have finished. ::Are you on the Malazan Empire Forum? If you create an account in your Wiki name and let me know here that you have done it, I'll send you a DM with a few other bits of editorial news. ::Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 12:38, March 18, 2019 (UTC) :: I was not on Malazan Empire Forum but I DID just create an account there haha. Same username as here, "cambonious". Feel free to send me whatever, thank you! RG Chapter Four Summary marked "completed" Hi Cambonious: Sorry about the time lag between when you posted your final RG/4 Chapter Summary and this message to tell you that it has finally been OK'ed and marked "Completed". Both ArchieVist and Egwene reviewed it and made what changes they felt comfortable making. The trouble was that neither had read RG for some time and they didn't feel they could accurately judge the validity of your Summary. As it happens, I turned out to be the experienced editor with the most recent exposure to the details of RG, so I was the logical person to do the honors. You may be overwhelmed by all the edits that I made (see "History" to compare your version with my final one), but for a first timer a significant amount of your work remains. Reading over your version and referring the the text, I did find that you evidently misunderstood some of the material and made other mistakes mainly minor but some otherwise. There were also a couple of things that I thought should have been included, so I added them (definitely a matter of judgement/taste). Being concise is not one of my strengths, so other words got added as well. I was very pleased with the effort that you clearly put into rewording the book text into your own words - great job! If you think I was wrong somewhere or if you don't understand why I changed/eliminated something, please don't hesitate to contact me and we can talk about it. Nothing is engraved in granite. View this as a learning effort. Don't let it keep you from doing another Chapter Summary or some other editing job. We more experienced editors will handle the checking procedure in a more timely fashion the next time. You are far from the first new editor (or old one for that matter) to have their painfully produced efforts undergo a significant amount of editing. We've all been there. Think of it as a rite of passage. Welcome to the club! : ) Looking forward to your next effort, Pcwrcw (talk) 06:45, March 17, 2019 (UTC) : Wow, awesome, thank you for the edits and additions! I appreciate you correcting my mistakes. As you mentioned sometime earlier, it's MY way of reading it and obviously everyone will read it differently so I appreciate you correcting my errors. I'll definitely keep doing the summaries. I feel like I have been following this book the worst though. As in, I'm currently on chapter 11 and would like to go back to Chapter 5 and restart the summaries, mainly to clear up some internal questions I have about the reading. : Hopefully I can start chapter 5 soon however, there are a bunch of real life events coming up that will keep me away from reading/summaries. : Anyways, thanks again and I'll take a more in-depth look at your edits to get a better feeling of your intent and better ways to write! Cambonious (talk) 16:06, March 19, 2019 (UTC) :::Hi Cambonious: You are very welcome! I actually find it much easier to edit an existing document than to write something from scratch (I do a lot of both). I don't know how universal an experience that is, but I suspect that a lot of people feel the same way. That's why I recommended that you just get your first thoughts on 'paper', and then go back and add/correct/delete/whatever until you're satisfied that you've done your best. SE's books, in particular, are full of things that are easily misinterpreted. If you follow the Malazan Reddit, you will have seen that there are lots of people who have misunderstood and/or missed things in SE's MBotF. Anyway, you are a pleasure to work with and I especially admire your persistence - which is a great trait for a budding editor to have! Whenever you have the time, I'll be more than happy to go over my editing of RG/4 with you : ) :::You mentioned some time ago that your family is/was in the process of growing - so my very best wishes that everything goes/has gone well. Cheers, Pcwrcw (talk) 02:49, March 20, 2019 (UTC)